Prime Minister Edi Rama is in London to participate in the annual Berlin Process Summit, which this year is being held in the United Kingdom, with the presence of heads of government, senior representatives of the European Union and partner countries of the Berlin Process, international financial institutions, and regional organisations engaged in the process.
Prime Minister Edi Rama took part in the Chatham House Panel on “The Western Balkans and the European Union,” a discussion focused on the challenges faced by each Western Balkan country on their path toward EU membership.
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-Prime Minister Edi Rama, Albania has rapidly opened most EU chapters, but presumably, there are still challenges that remain. Are you confident in your own target?
Prime Minister Edi Rama: We have a lot of challenges, but when we come to Britain, we feel better about our challenges.
-Why exactly is that?
Prime Minister Edi Rama: So, what do you mean by exactly? Don’t bring me there now, because we also have the minister here. So he has enough pain, and he doesn’t need more from us.
No, we have challenges. Of course, we have challenges, but as I told you before entering the room, we are in a period where Europe is behaving very well with us. So it’s difficult to have a salty conversation. So the risk of being bored is big. And the risk of making all these young people feel like they are losing their time with us by listening to our platitudes, how Montenegro is doing great, and how Albania is doing great, is big. So what can I say is that, overall, I believe, at this moment in time, we are doing better than Europe.
-Do you still have faith in the EU accession process? Is it still an important goal for your country? Would it be transformative?
I had faith when it was nearly pathetic and ridiculous to have faith, but not just I. The very large majority of Albanians, more than 90% of them, have faith in Europe and in the European Union membership. Because for us, that one is not anything else but exactly what it was for the founding fathers.
So finally, we are in a place where we have chosen freely to be and where we are safe. So this is, for us, very firm belief, very firm conviction and therefore, we are fighting to be part of it.
Since the aggression of Ukraine, thanks to Vladimir Putin, Europe woke up big time. And it’s not only saying how important it is for the European Union to get the Western Balkans inside, but it’s also doing its best to accelerate it. So we were there also before, and we were working hard also before, and we complied with the criteria to start negotiations also before, which was confirmed three times by the European Commission. But we refused. We refused exactly because the words and the deeds were completely separate. Now, Europe is fully on board, and I hope it will continue to be so. So finally, we will achieve this goal, and we will realize this dream. And then a new era, a new life will start with new challenges. Of course, challenges are always there and will never end. But at least we’ll overcome this incredible obstacle between us and ourselves, I say, because we belong there, and we cannot stay out of that.
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-You said that there are some actors, some countries that are not very happy with the progress which was made by Montenegro and also Albania towards the European Union. We know about these countries from the east of Europe, but probably there are also some countries in your neighbourhood that are not exactly joyous about how quickly Montenegro and also Albania are progressing towards the European Union, and I think we all know who I’m talking about.
Prime Minister Edi Rama: No, we don’t know, say it.
It’s a country north from Montenegro. So basically my question is, what do you think how this can influence your progress? Is it going to influence? And if it is going, what are you going to do to mitigate the effects of this? And maybe the same question also to Prime Minister Rama.
Prime Minister Edi Rama: No, listen, what Natalie said is something we have experienced ourselves in the sense that the process is binary, on one hand is fully technical. And on the other hand is fully political. But one thing is very clear. You cannot have any political support if you don’t fulfill the technicalities of the process in every stage and you can also face lack of political support. So this is very clear. So and this is what practically, in a moment in time, made you look like very big hypocrite vis-a-vis all of us because what they were saying was not matched by the reality of facts, and they were not delivering. And they were not delivering because Europe is is a patient with 27 doctors. There were they were 28. But one of the doctors got mad and, and had to be go to another cure.
While 27 have to fully agree 100%. And there, and we had three times in a row because of few, very few doctors that we were, we were not allowed to take another step. In this way, things have changed because someone here, I don’t know who mentioned front runners. But I remember that there were different front-runners some years ago and Albania was nor a front runner, either a runner. So, now we are told to be front runners. And I have, I tell in every occasion, please stop, get this word out of it because it fuels some resentment, in others. It’s like, we, everyone does what, what has to do. And then some are in a better place in a moment in time, some are in a not so good place in a moment in time, but things change and every country should have the chance to improve without being labelled front runner or back runner or, or whatever.
So when it comes to the, to the, you know, unhappiness, of course, you know, we are Balkans and without the jealousy, without the, without the resentment about the other, without the judgment of the other’s success, we would not be who we are. But the good news is that we are not alone anymore in this, in this world, because once upon a time, we were the guys that were fighting and dividing and, and never, never, you know, finding ways to compromise within our countries and among our countries. But now it’s everywhere like this.
So now, the Balkan club has become so big and the Balkanization of ish politics and of French politics and of name it is, is now fact. So it’s such a big and deep Balkanization that we feel like the adults in the room when we see how the others fight, you know, and how the others have different views even about the boats. Some call them small boats, some call them Brexit boats. And one wonders why you left Europe. You left Europe because you wanted less boats and you have more boats. You left Europe because you wanted more investment. You have less investment. You left Europe because you wanted more happiness. Now you are depressed. So welcome to the Balkan club.
-Well, concretely, since you’ve raised that issue, even though we’re here to talk about EU, we are here to talk about your path towards EU membership, but you raised it yourself here just now. Are you somewhat frustrated, Prime Minister Edi Rama?
Prime Minister Edi Rama: Frustrated.
-When you listen to, if you just let me finish, when you listen to the headlines here in the UK, vis-a-vis Albania and the role that your country, is probably playing in the migration debate.
Prime Minister Edi Rama: I remember among many crazy, hilarious, stupid things that were said during the Brexit, the leave referendum, was a poster with kind of very strange, scary birds that were coming from Albania to suck the blood of . And the promise was leave Europe and they will not come anymore. So guess what, they left Europe and Albanians became a much bigger topic. Because I believe the problem is not the Albanians, or is not the foreigners, or is not the migrants, the problem is how to, where to find the scapegoats for this disastrous decision to leave Europe. It’s a disaster. And so I don’t feel frustrated, no I don’t feel frustrated, I feel sorry, very sorry. And I was telling before in another meeting that when someone named Suella, (Suella Braverman), yes, when she came out and singled out the Albanians, and by the way, where is she, you know, just keep it in mind, don’t mess with the Albanians because if the Albanians curse you, you just disappear.
So, I came here because I was asked to come from some very nice Albanian friends here and I felt like coming to just find her. But I found journalists talking about her and so on. And I arrive, we go in the hotel, first thing a young man comes towards me and the guard, British guard, tried to protect me and he said to me in Albanian, Welcome. I said to him, don’t worry, he’s a friend. And he was a waiter. And then in the morning, we get out of the hotel and I heard Edi Rama, from up, and the British guards weretrying to protect me. They were some Albanians, the scaffold, they were fixing the building or building or something. I said don’t worry, they are friends. And then we take the car, we go to the commons and there is a big guy in uniform and he says to me in Albanian, welcome Mr. Prime Minister.
-But 40% of your population is outside of Albania.
Prime Minister Edi Rama: No, my question was, if you take them out, who will do these jobs? Who are the young s that will go in the scaffold up and will shout, here, here. Who are the s that will be the waiters and will say, Welcome Mr. Prime Minister. Who are the Brits that will be taking care of your gardens, beautiful gardens?
So I believe that even the migration is a total scapegoat. It’s not the migration the problem. Of course, there is inside this topic the problem of irregular, illegal, whatever. And I don’t say that this is wrong. But you know, it’s like it was leave and now it’s leave us, leave us, leave us. And what we’ll do at the end? Obviously this is… Not you, because you are Brazilian I guess, no?
No, I’m actually English and Dutch. English and Dutch.
Prime Minister Edi Rama: But why do you have this Latin name?
Married to a Portuguese. Yeah. Educated in French.
Prime Minister Edi Rama: Lucky you that you didn’t marry a British.
-Natalie mentioned the reformation of the EU? I wanted to ask both Prime Ministers, to what extent you welcome or not the idea of, if you were to be a member state, to drop the right to veto for a while, an idea that is being floated right now in the accession process? Thank you.
Prime Minister Edi Rama: Montenegro will never give up any right, because they are a big country. I’m talking on behalf of Albania, which is a small country. Big country in quality. I like that. Big quality. Quality of sun, of sea, of beaches.
Now, seriously, this is something that I personally have touched long ago. And to the big surprise of my colleagues and to the big surprise of anyone else, I’ve advocated for that. I’ve advocated for two things.
Number one, that the process could not be all or nothing. Meaning, until you are a member and you are just a candidate, you have nothing. And what I want to say with that is that the member states, and I’m talking about the member states around us, they have from the EU as a contribution around 4,500 euros per capita. When it comes to us, the contribution is around 160-170 euros per capita. So this is impossible. And we have advocated for that, and from a push we made, we succeeded to have some ears opened and to have this new growth plan and extra money to finance the reforms and so on, which is not at all comparable with the rest, but it’s something different, plus what AndI mentioned, more access in the single market, the common payments, whatever it’s called, because Europe has plenty of interesting acronyms that you don’t remember, and so on.
The second is exactly that. So there is a frustration, very clear frustration among the European members and especially the big ones, about the equality around the table, with 27 that have to have consensus about everything. And I can imagine that when they see us, they say, oh my God, we’ll have more troublemakers coming to the table and suddenly saying no, no, no, and veto our decisions, which to me makes sense. Not to veto, but to be frustrated. So I have advocated since a long time that getting us inside as members with a different status is more than welcome, meaning no right to veto, no right to vote for as long as Europe will reform itself.
I don’t know when this will happen, because this reform has been the keyword for so many decades, but it’s very difficult to reform the mechanisms. So yes, we would fully agree, because at the end I know also another thing, that as far as we are concerned, when it comes to aligning with the EU policy, foreign policy, we may say, we have given ourselves the right to say what we think, but when it’s time to decide, we are in line and we follow.
We follow in NATO, we follow in EU, because at the end we are small and it’s not up to us to make the big decisions, which is good. And when there is a big mess up, it’s not us, it’s them, and so nobody will blame us. When there is success, we are part of the success.
Prime Minister Edi Rama: The Minister mentioned something which is fundamental. And it was a fight I made for a long time with various British Prime Ministers, but they changed so many Prime Ministers in a very short time that it was impossible to follow up. We started with something which is fundamentally different from what has been the case for many years, which is to fight the organised crime and the trafficking networks on the ground together. And to avoid all the bureaucratic channels of exchanging information and of waiting and of then blaming each other. And it has worked fantastically. And not only has it worked in a fantastic way, but it has worked in a way that I believe is sustainable. So it’s not an operation. It’s a systemic confrontation with this disease of networks that traffic people. It’s not about people coming freely here, but it’s about people being trafficked. And this is a fundamental difference. When it comes to my dear friend Nigel, I have invited him. He has promised even publicly that he will come. He asked for a date that coincided with our Independence Day and I said Nigel, it’s better we find another date because then if you come you have to be confronted with our national hero and you look too small. So he will come.
I believe that it’s not up to us to decide who will be elected and who will not be elected in , but at the end of the day we have seen more than once that the business of the government is something totally different from the poetry of the opposition. So I don’t see any problem when it comes to cooperate with whomever. And at the end I believe that Farage is not the problem. Farage is a mirror of problems that has some theatrical capacity to be attractive, but the problems are elsewhere. So this is my answer. When it comes to the hubs or whatever they are called, I’ve said it and I repeat, never in Albania.
-Mr Prime Minister Rama, you are a very straightforward person, so my question will also be very straightforward. In terms of EU expansion and towards the Western Balkans, especially Albania, what happens to the question of Kosovo? Because the European Union has made it clear that territorial issues need to be resolved before any further succession can happen. Thank you.
Prime Minister Edi Rama: I don’t see a territorial issue. Between Kosovo and anyone else, the territory of Kosovo is defined. And Kosovo is a republic, a new democratic state recognised by the big powers and not yet recognised by only five countries in the European Union. So in that regard, I don’t see the issue.
On the other hand, it’s Kosovo’s job to push forward and to convince the rest of its firm foot on the values and the principles of the democratic world and of the European Union. And in this, my opinion is very well known that I think to be successful, Kosovo has to forget Serbia, literally forget Serbia and deliver on all the points that are related to the EU-facilitated dialogue independently from Serbia. So just comply with every point and throw the ball on the Serbian side and move forward towards Europe by letting Europe deal with Serbia and not let the Serbian issue become always an issue of blame between the two. But this is my own humble opinion. And of course, I fully respect what the elected leaders in Kosovo decide for their own people and for their own country.
-I’m an Albanian. Minister, I didn’t came here by boat. I came with the cheerleading program. I’m a researcher in politics and I was very happy to be here and listen to the prime minister speak about how willing is Albania to become part of the European Union and that we are 90% willing to become part of it. But there’s a problem with Albania that a lot of young people are living in country and there is a paradox. 90% want to become part of the EU, but also what does it mean when they are living in the country? And it’s not only a problem for our country, but it’s also a problem in the region. And we’ve made great progress. Like we made good progress. Whoever says that Albania didn’t make progress need to get their fact checked. But whoever says that Albania doesn’t have problems or the region doesn’t have problems, they also need to get that done.
My question is directly for both prime ministers. In regards to the people that are living in the country, the young people, the successful ones, do you have a strategy to tap on that power? Do you have a strategy that will make them come back in the country?
-I would like to take the story back home, membership of the European Union. So if indeed your two countries, Albania and Montenegro, joined the EU on schedule, as you were discussing today, the other four countries are going to be left behind. Three of these countries, Serbia, Kosovo, and Bosnia and Herzegovina, have been facing a very serious political crisis in the last 12 months, especially Serbia, which is maybe on the brink of a civil war. So how do you see change in the playing field if it changes to four plus two? And do you see either of your countries having some kind of a capacity to actually support the three that are facing problems to resolve them? Not just for the EU membership, but crisis in some of these countries, crisis in the region. Thank you.
Prime Minister Edi Rama: I have a different opinion in that in the sense that I don’t see I don’t see the fact that you came here to follow your path and to become better through an education process that this country can give to you as a loss for our country. It’s a benefit for our country. And we don’t live anymore in an era where things are so clearly separated. It’s much more interconnected. There is much more movement. And this is a movement that is much more visible even within the big countries there are cities, small cities, former centers of industries and of productivity that are practically abandoned by the young people who seek to come in London and to come now and to get everything now and so on and so forth. So it’s an ambition. And of course, there is not a magic key to turn it upside down. And there is not a magic wand to make Albania a country where you can find the same opportunities as you find in London or in Berlin or in Paris or this or that.
It’s a process. It’s a trajectory that every country has gone through. We have to go through and of course, we improve, and there are people there are more people coming back today than they were there were five years ago. But still, there are more people who are leaving than people who are coming back. This is obvious. So in that sense, I believe that we have to continue to do what we are doing to improve the quality of life in the country, to raise the possibilities of getting better way.
I want just to say one thing. He didn’t come by boat and he underlined it. I don’t know why, but our ambassador came by boat. He came by boat. He’s ambassador. You came with visa and you are nobody. You see, so people, you know, so the boats brought a lot of people that had dreams, ambitions and wanted to fight and are honouring the British society. So Andi, I don’t know if he came by boat or he came with visa, but it doesn’t matter.
So what’s, what is important is that at least our community of Albanians here is giving to enough for British politicians that single out Albanian to shut it up, to shut the F up. All right. So, okay. And not, not mention Albanians for anything but very good reasons. Albanians are giving energy, are giving services, are working hard, are proud to be part of this large community of people, of this diverse society. And so whoever touched them should shut up.
-I suppose the most obvious question is, is there an alternative to EU membership? Obviously there is an administration in the United States that is quite hostile towards the EU at the moment. Do you Prime Minister feel like you have to choose? Is there an alternative at all?
Prime Minister Edi Rama: Listen, there is an alternative to the European Union if there is an alternative to freedom of movement, to human rights, to the rule of law. Give me an alternative to these three things, and I can tell you there is an alternative to the European Union.
Who wants freedom, all the freedoms, including the freedom of movement, who wants the human rights to be always undisputable and who wants the rule of law to be always untouchable, has only one, only one alternative. The European Union, okay. Until the United Kingdom proves us wrong, but for the moment, it’s proving us more than right.
-Well, we have the Berlin Process Summit for that, which I’m sure you’ll continue those discussions with the Minister over there.
Prime Minister Edi Rama:You see, the Berlin Process is made to push countries further towards the EU, and insists to have the Berlin Process here because they miss Europe, they miss the European Union. They have pain, and they don’t want to say it.
-We haven’t left Europe, Edi, as you know. And we certainly haven’t left our friends in the Western Balkans.
Prime Minister Edi Rama: Oh, you have voted. If you have voted Leave, tell me what you have left because you voted leave. We are not going to give you our place.
-I would like to thank both Prime Ministers for this long discussion.
